First of all, intern salaries are typically set at ~90-100 percent of full-time salary (but without bonus or equity). So these people who are freaking out about intern salaries are missing the point. They assume that if "even an intern" makes $8,000 per month, that every full-time employee makes $200k+. No, it's not like that. It's like this: we properly pay interns with an entry-level salary, unlike the soft industries (e.g. publishing, media) that have an oversupply of qualified but unimpressive hipsters who'll take the job for free, and we pay interns for their work because it's the right thing to do, and (for as much flak as I give the tech industry) that's one area where we do the right thing.
It annoyed me when Valleywag attacked intern salaries. There's so much to impeach the Valley for, but paying interns properly isn't one of them.
Second, we don't really know what software salaries would be without the H1-B program. The program may or may not be depressing wages, but we don't know right now.
Third, I'm all for high-talent immigration, and I'm sure that there are good companies who treat their H1-B workers well. Some don't, and it's the body shops that are getting the negative attention.
With the bad actors, more than it is about costs or talent at the bad-actor companies, it's about deference to authority (or, "disinclination to agitate"). The H1-B program keeps the worker captive, and that's more valuable to the company than any wage depression. Programmer salaries aren't high enough for anyone to care about shaving a few percentage points off entry-level figures, but a lot of these tech companies do want people who are captive-- or, better still, young (age discrimination is a part of this issue, as well) and perceived to be culturally disinclined to challenge managerial authority.
My problem, on this issue, isn't with the H1-B program, although it should be reformed. (A high-talent immigration program must, by definition, be unconditional on month-by-month employment status.) I certainly don't have a problem with a company like AeroFS that needs to hire a foreign worker to fill a niche. However, I take umbrage to the assholes who complain about a general "talent shortage" but won't look twice at a programmer over 35. They're being disingenuous to the point of being unethical. Instead of being honest about their economic interests ("good people cost more than we want to pay") they're attempting to play the Existential Risk Card ("talent shortage"). It's vile to make that claim.
It seems like companies would rather go across an ocean for talent than across the country.
Yeah, there's that too. I know of one fairly prominent company that refuses to hire outside of New York. What do you think that idiocy is about? Ageism? Stinginess with respect to relocation?
Let's be serious a few minutes, no H1-B worker is held captive at all. I've been on H1-B for 4 years and still on it, and have changed employer twice with no issues.
The only case you can make is that if a H1-B is applying for a Green Card then he can have to wait a while before moving, but it's nothing to do with H1-B itself.
I agree that it's a bit of a myth that you "can't" change jobs on an H1B. You have pointed out that there are obstacles, such as a green card waiting list. While technically this isn't related to the H1B, I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with it if a very high number of H1B holders are counting on employer sponsorship for green cards.
To me, though, there is a bigger issue. How far from your original job title did you drift when you changed jobs? The H1B could be seen not so much as a way of forcing people to remain with one company as it is a way of forcing people to work the kind of jobs silicon valley employers want them to work. There are no restrictions on your employment - you can be a programmer here, there, or even over there!
The reason I think this matters is that I believe that programmers are actually underpaid relative to what highly educated and skilled people can make in other segments of the economy. Keep in mind, in SF, application developers only earn a bit more than dental hygienists. Suppose you decided, at age 25, that you'd prefer to do dental hygiene, since you were concerned about possible age related employment issues. Would you be allowed to do that as an H1B holder? Even if you are (my guess is that a dental hygienist would count as a skilled position worthy of the visa), what about going back to school? Could you find dentist to sponsor your visa?
To me, there's a reason for the "shortage" of programmers - the job isn't as great as employers claim it is, salaries and career prospects aren't good enough to lure these talented people away from other fields. To fix this, as a crutch, we've essentially created a system of immigration where people are allowed to come to the US provided they work as employee programmers for a period of time, after which many career paths may be closed to them or harder to pursue.
The Valley is a lot more open about H1-B transfers than the rest of the country is. I made the mistake of working the mid-west for a number of years where job hopping was not as rampant as the Valley and generally looked down upon. Also, every time you jump to a new employer keep in mind that your Green Card clock gets reset and your H1-B's 6-7 yr. limit stays the same. Having spent a significant portion of my youth here, my goal was to become a naturalized citizen. For most H1-Bs this is one of their major goals. The questions you'll have to deal with are always a bunch of What ifs.. What if I get laid off tomorrow? I've one month to find a job. What if my employer soft pedals on the Green Card application? What if my manager turns out to be an ass and my Green Card is only 2 years away? In that situation, I am pretty much a captive. It even took Alexandrescu (author of Modern C++ Design) about 16 years to become a citizen. Not acceptable.
Now Yahoo is closing it's India office and bringing a bunch of people to Sunnyvale. Not sure how they are going to do that with all the lottery bull going on.
Yes in the case of Green Card I agree you can become a captive if you're still waiting for your I-140. That being said, the DoL is currently reviewing the rules and should allow portability of the PERM in the near future as directed by Obama's announcement last Thursday, so when this finally happens there should be no longer talk of captivity even for Green Cards since PERM really doesn't take that long (unles syou get an audit...)
First of all, intern salaries are typically set at ~90-100 percent of full-time salary (but without bonus or equity). So these people who are freaking out about intern salaries are missing the point. They assume that if "even an intern" makes $8,000 per month, that every full-time employee makes $200k+. No, it's not like that. It's like this: we properly pay interns with an entry-level salary, unlike the soft industries (e.g. publishing, media) that have an oversupply of qualified but unimpressive hipsters who'll take the job for free, and we pay interns for their work because it's the right thing to do, and (for as much flak as I give the tech industry) that's one area where we do the right thing.
It annoyed me when Valleywag attacked intern salaries. There's so much to impeach the Valley for, but paying interns properly isn't one of them.
Second, we don't really know what software salaries would be without the H1-B program. The program may or may not be depressing wages, but we don't know right now.
Third, I'm all for high-talent immigration, and I'm sure that there are good companies who treat their H1-B workers well. Some don't, and it's the body shops that are getting the negative attention.
With the bad actors, more than it is about costs or talent at the bad-actor companies, it's about deference to authority (or, "disinclination to agitate"). The H1-B program keeps the worker captive, and that's more valuable to the company than any wage depression. Programmer salaries aren't high enough for anyone to care about shaving a few percentage points off entry-level figures, but a lot of these tech companies do want people who are captive-- or, better still, young (age discrimination is a part of this issue, as well) and perceived to be culturally disinclined to challenge managerial authority.
My problem, on this issue, isn't with the H1-B program, although it should be reformed. (A high-talent immigration program must, by definition, be unconditional on month-by-month employment status.) I certainly don't have a problem with a company like AeroFS that needs to hire a foreign worker to fill a niche. However, I take umbrage to the assholes who complain about a general "talent shortage" but won't look twice at a programmer over 35. They're being disingenuous to the point of being unethical. Instead of being honest about their economic interests ("good people cost more than we want to pay") they're attempting to play the Existential Risk Card ("talent shortage"). It's vile to make that claim.