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Google 4a user here. They pushed an update while I was on a ski trip in Korea - I updated an hour before getting on my bus and.. the application launcher started crashing on unlock. I couldn't open any apps.

Thankfully, I was able to get into the settings and switch to Lawnchair without a working "desktop UI", but without a second application launcher I would have been totally screwed. I checked the Play Store afterwards and saw hundreds of people with the same issue.

On Linux I can choose which "security" updates to install, and only install those. Why can't Windows and Android provide such a feature?



Stuff like this is why I keep printing entrance tickets and the like. I don't want to end up in a situation where I have to trust software that is known to have new bugs every months to get into a place without any sort of backup.


>Stuff like this is why I keep printing entrance tickets and the like.

I almost got completely screwed by my pixel updating right before a concert while I was already out of town. Luckily my wife was able to login to my computer and forward the tickets to someone else that I was with, but it was a close call because she was walking out the door to do something herself when I managed to get ahold of her.


This works until you start attending events that require you to present your cell phone for entrance


What? For what purpose? I've never heard of or encountered this.


Some concerts have tickets that refresh every N seconds, ostensibly to prevent counterfeiting. https://conduition.io/coding/ticketmaster/

In this case, if you don’t have a phone that can display Ticketmaster’s code, you’re just SOL, since they decided to break being able to just print out your code.


as others mention ticket master seems to do this for some venues and events


As if I needed another reason to hate Ticketmaster.


> Why can't Windows and Android provide such a feature?

Windows does.

Android "can't" because the OS is a partition image with libraries not intended to be updated piecemeal, not a collection of loosely related external projects like Linux is.


Nothing actually requires Android to be that way. They chose poorly but every new release is an opportunity to fix it.


> They chose poorly

Did they? Immutable system images are a pretty solid feature to have. It's a lot less "fall over broken as shit randomly" than desktop Linux is...


Desktop Linux doesn't actually do that unless you're trying to use a rolling release distribution. The way stable distributions work is that the packages largely remain the same for a given major version throughout its lifespan, but individual packages can still receive security updates.


I've had "stable" distributions fall over upgrading between their major versions.

But you missed the point that Android's system image is immutable and updates are atomic. A user can't screw it up. This is not an insignificant feature, and it's something you also get with something like Fedora Silverblue. Which then also doesn't let you pick and choose what updates to get.


Major version upgrades occasionally break things because they're a new feature release but are then trying to migrate configuration from the existing system. But the same thing happens with "atomic" upgrades if you're trying to migrate existing configuration, because the bug is really in the migration system that didn't properly handle that configuration variance, not because the packages aren't upgraded atomically. Which is why phones sometimes do break on major version upgrades for the same reason.


Piecemeal updates are also absolute hell to support - they rapidly lead to an untestable combinatorial explosion of possible software loadouts. Even Ubuntu doesn't officially support installing packages from a mixture of point releases (e.g. installing Ubuntu 24.10 packages on the 24.04 LTS); it might be technically possible, but if anything breaks, you get to keep the pieces.


>Google 4a user here. They pushed an update while I was on a ski trip in Korea - I updated an hour before getting on my bus and.. the application launcher started crashing on unlock. I couldn't open any apps.

I had that happen like a year ago while I was getting ready to go to a concert in another state. Luckily I was able to call my wife have her login to my gmail and forward my digital tickets to someone else in my party.


Nonsense like this is why I personally will never buy a google hardware product ever again.

It is also why it is so difficult to recommend an android phone because of google being an advert company first.


The other side of the coin is that the Pixels are one of the few (only?) devices supported by GrapheneOS.

(My Pixel 6 is rock solid on that by the way.)


I had a nexus 5x and then a pixel 4a. The latter I bought used as a burner phone.

This is the core problem - it is a roll of the dice whether your hardware will work five years from today.

I’m less concerned about the software but that is also a problem.

Meanwhile, my iPhone SE from 2016 still works as advertised.


apple is an advertising company too. what's the alternative?


Apple also has an advertising company. And they track you, but they get money by selling you stuff mostly. I’m deep into the Apple ecosystem system and they don’t force updates, try to upsell me every time updates are installed. I have no ads on the apps I use. They are quite happy for you to fork over gobs of money and call it a day.

Googles primary source of income is ads. All this stuff they do is the primary way they get money. People need to stop being surprised this is where they ended up.


> I’m deep into the Apple ecosystem system and they don’t force updates

My iPad is pretty naggy to install updates, moreso than my Pixel phone even. iOS doesn't automatically update like Android does, but if anything that seems less like it's because Apple disagrees with that and more because their update system is so shit they can't get away with it. It's inexcusably slow to apply updates.

> try to upsell me every time updates are installed

They are the only ones to have lost a lawsuit for doing literally this. Batterygate wasn't that long ago, surely you didn't forget about it already? Heck class actions about it are still happening in various countries!


So if they hadn’t push the update to throttle your phone when the battery could no longer run at full speed would that have been better?


"Your phone battery has degraded and cannot run the CPU at full speed. Please replace the battery."

this dead simple warning message + a switch to toggle CPU throttling is all anyone ever wanted.

However that would require them to respect their users' intelligence - not Apple's style.


Yea, Apple's advertising business is a non-profit public good venture right?

I do my part to support Chinese factory workers by purchasing the latest iPhone™


Something like CalyxOS on Fairphone, presumably.


Apple is no where near as invasive as Google. Most sites on the Internet phone home to Google. Here are some examples:

https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/ https://news.google.com/swg/js/v1/swg.js - I found these on the Washington Post's web site.

https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/opensans/v20/cJZKeOuBrn4kERxqtaU... https://www.googletagmanager.com/static/service_worker/51n0/... - I found these on New Egg's home page.

https://cm.g.doubleclick.net/pixel?google_nid=a9&google_cm&e... - I found this going to Amazon's home page.

https://www.gstatic.com/recaptcha/releases/I0bG74fWAenNf3Z5n... https://www.google.com/recaptcha/api2/anchor?ar=1&k=6LetQiEU... https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/roboto/v18/KFOmCnqEu92Fr1Mu4mxK.... - I found all of these on democrats.org.

https://ad.doubleclick.net/activity;register_conversion=1;sr...? https://9323526.fls.doubleclick.net/activityi;src=9323526;ty...? https://www.google.com/recaptcha/api2/anchor?ar=1&k=6LdJ810b... - I found these on www.gop.com.

Basically, Google tracks peopple everywhere. They track what news you read, where you shop, and what political party you support. Apple does none of this. No one tracks people on the Internet like Google. Facebook doesn't. Amazon doesn't. X doesn't. Microsoft doesn't (the own Bing). Apple certainly doesn't.


You will get tracked by those even if you use an Apple device. The key difference between Android and iOS is that Android gives users the ability not to be tracked. iOS (even MacOS) doesn't even let you uninstall Apple News. iOS won't let you get your location or install an app without telling Apple. It won't even let you run a browser other than Safari, which has known data leaking vulnerabilities. User control is the key privacy feature.


Apple does it one way, Google does the same thing but another way. Instead of locking everything down, preventing you to use any other browser than safari for instance, they push you to use their spyware. Android might be open source, but the Google play services are not and if you ever tried to do anything without them, you'd know it's impossible.

Both tracks you by forcing you to use their app that works as spyware.


> and if you ever tried to do anything without them, you'd know it's impossible.

I've done plenty of things without them. All Amazon devices do everything they do without them. Same with all Android devices sold in China.


Safari blocks a lot of these trackers. For more information, please see https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/browse-the-web-privat... .

Also, you missed the point of my comment. The comment I replied to basically was saying Apple and Google are equivalent because Apple sells ads (they sell search listings in the App store search and may run an optional advertising service for apps). My point was they are not equivalent because Apple does not track people around the web like Google does. The other things is Apple has released a lot of privacy features which interfere with the advertising spying machine.

At best, Google pretends to improve privacy. Google's business is basically building a profile on each individual so they can serve the most relevant ads to that person. They make more money when they serve relevant ads (ads people will see, and maybe buy something based on the ad). Google has no interest or incentive to protect privacy because their business depends on invading privacy.


> My point was they are not equivalent because Apple does not track people around the web like Google does.

That's a pittance of privacy. Apple sells your search results out to Google, cooperates with NSA surveillance and institutes online DRM for your apps. They do not care about protecting you from tracking because tracking users is official policy for Apple in both iOS and MacOS.

It is pathetic to watch people on this site rush out to defend Apple like they aren't part of the problem. If you have witnessed Tim Cook's behavior over the past 10 years and still hold hope for Apple, you are not paying close enough attention.

> At best, Google pretends to improve privacy.

Google still published AOSP source code. That's not "pretending" to improve anything, it's an outright statement about the transparent security of their product. I hate AdSense and consider it an anticompetitive scourge on the internet, but I don't see Apple making commitments to security on the level of Google. Last I checked they were still trying to sue security researchers...

If you think Google is "pretending" to improve privacy, how can you deny that Apple pretends too? The reason people drill down on this isn't to defend Google, it's to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you do not actually know what Apple's stance is on this and cannot confirm it with hard evidence. You are repeating marketing and whitepapers, hoping that it's correct.


You very much can remove Apple News just like any other app on iOS.




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