Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
Thousands of octopuses gather off California to brood eggs at a warm spot (npr.org)
178 points by gmays on Sept 1, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 95 comments


This is likely the site of the vigilant octomom from 2007, who was observed by researchers to have guarded her eggs for over four years:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2014.15646


Radiolab did a test episode on this. It’s fascinating!!

https://radiolab.org/podcast/octomom


MBARIs video on this is the thing to watch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zEXUOPkQPo8

It's worth the click, they're the group doing the research here.


Wow -- great video. Interesting how you can tell the narrator is involved in the project and really cares versus some paid voice actor reading a script.


Their entire channel is amazing. Highly recommended


We would be warm, below the storm, in our little hideaway beneath the waves


Kracken City.


Take me down to the Kracken city

Where the seagrass's green and the girls are eight-armed.

</GnR>


I can't decide if you knew it was a reference to the Beatles Octopus's Garden and tried to be even wittier or not.

For me it was instant recognition, I was rather surprised that lived in my subconsciousness.


>Brood times for nesting females there seemed to be about 1.8 years, while previous observations of a deep-sea octopus in cold water showed that it took 4.5 years for its eggs to hatch, a length of time longer than any other animal.

This is just mind boggling. And during that time the females aren't feeding?!


The mothers die after the eggs hatch to provide food for the babies. It's similar to bears overeating before hibernation, except they do it to prepare for sexual maturity.


The mothers also eat their mates. Evolution seems to have pushed octopus breeding to one extreme. It's a one shot deal for both sexes.


Is is a willing choice on both counts? I.E. mate knows mother will eat them after sex, mother knows they will be eaten after eggs hatch?


I learned recently that the pluralization of "octopus" is a linguistics rabbit hole. While most people would reach for "octopuses" or "octopi", the strictly correctest pluralization would be "octopodes" (last syllable rhyming with "these"), since the word is from ancient greek. [1]

I first heard this on a linguistics podcast called "Talk the Talk"[2] (now superseded by "Because Language"[3]). The hosts go on to clarify that language evolves over time and is most importantly defined by what people actually use, so there's nothing wrong with modern English deviating from the ancient greek pluralization.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluralis... [2] https://talkthetalkpodcast.com/ [3] https://becauselanguage.com/


It is my understanding that 'octopuses' is the strictly correct option because it matches a greek root word with an English suffix and we are speaking English after all. Dictionaries seem to agree.

Octopodes is acceptable in some contexts because it matches a greek root word with a greek suffix. Octopi is just wrong because it applies a latin suffix to a greek root.

This came up notably a few years ago as the winning answer to a high-stakes HQ Trivia game. [1]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/05/arts/hq-trivia-app-appoin...


I’m not sure I agree.

If we were speaking Latin, would “Octopi” still be wrong? Given the logic used to claim that Octopuses is the correct pluralization, I don’t see how it could be.

Thus, I’m left to conclude that Octopodes is the only correct form since it lacks this spoken language dependency.


Yes, octopi is wrong in latin. Octopus is conjugated as Octopodi in the plural. See: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octopus#Latin


See my sibling comment - where does the insistence that octopus is third declension come from? The reality is that while most Greek loanwords are third declension, many are not, and Latin authors tended to not be consistent.


Totally, it would still be wrong for the reason you cited.

Wasn't my point, however. I'm really just being stubborn on the plural actually being Octopodes :)


There is no such way to define strictly correct through logic alone in English. It's really just whatever people say.

After all, we have a ton of words that mix latin and greek roots/-fixes. Eg bioluminescence, bigamy, homophobic, etc.


Yeah, I think that battle was lost a long time ago, and in the scheme of things it wasn't not a big loss. Octopuses is more consistent with how English speakers pluralize, plus it's waaaay more fun to say.


My understanding is that all variations are generally acceptable and no one cares all that much:

* octopodes

* octopi

* octopuses


I think you are correct on the first point, but judging by the other comments here (and any time this subject crops up), you are apparently wrong on the second. :P


> no one cares

My elementary school teachers sure did. And they insisted that it was "octopi".


Excuse me if this may sounds harsh or uncharitable, but my experience with American elementary school teachers has led me to believe that many, if not most, elementary school teachers are generally rigid in their way of teaching (my way is the right way, there is no other way), and refuse to address nuance, perhaps from their own ignorance, their patronization of children, or both. While we absolutely need and should support high quality elementary school teachers, the assumption I've developed is that most elementary school teachers are highly juvenile themselves, and are there partially due to their own lack of executive functioning, considering that elementary school is more similar to a day care than an actual educational facility.

I recall talking to an elementary school teacher who insisted that the only way to comprehend whether a number was even was to determine if the least significant digit was 0 or 2 and I was met with hostility when I mentioned that while that may be easier for the child to understand within a base-10 world, if even the educator can't understand why an even number is more accurately described as a number which when divided by 2 has a remainder of 0 then I should be very concerned about the state of education.


I haven't heard about much besides perhaps even stronger rigidity from other places so we might not be especially bad and I've only heard of softening in the US lately.

But spending too much time on nuance may be especially counterproductive with younger children. I'm not sure about that but it's a reasonable hypothesis.


It’s possible. I suspect it may partly be that stories about elementary teachers being stubbornly wrong are more interesting than stories of them being stubbornly right or being open minded.


I can agree that I'm most likely experiencing selection bias here.


To boldly go.


No. Octopi is just wrong, has no justification, and is based on ignorance.


No. You seem very confident, but octopi is (grammatically) perfectly acceptable. The English word octopus is taken from the Latin (coined by Linnaeus) word octopus, which is of Greek origin. Greek loanwords in Latin were used very inconsistently, but many people on the internet seem to believe that it MUST be a third declension noun. However, Pliny treats the structurally identical polypus as second declension and uses the plural polypi (see https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plin.+Nat.+9&f...).


Tell my 2nd grade teacher.


Its Engl-ish. Emphasis on the -ish.

They’re all fine.


Octopux.


I feel like we should settle it with something that nobody agrees on. Octopuswiches.


Or perhaps Octopussies?


I think people would agree with that though.


Hexapus.


Octii


As an Australian I'm used to hearing "antipodean" and sometimes "antipodes", so "octopodes" sits well!


Thousands of octopodes, no?



You can pry octopi from my cold, dead hands.


I believe you mean tentacles.


Only if they're from Australia or New Zealand


Octopode is a wider category


For those like feeling deja vu, there was some discussion 10 days ago, but NOT above HN's general "significant discussion" threshold:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37268852>

(Based on NY Times coverage.)


Thanks! Macroexpanded:

Atop an Underwater Hot Spring, an ‘Octopus Garden’ Thrives - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37268852 - Aug 2023 (10 comments)

Watch Baby Octopuses Hatch from a Surprising Deep-Sea Nursery - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36600179 - July 2023 (54 comments)


Ah, I hadn't found the 2nd (despite trying a few different searches). Would have tripped my own dupe criteria if I had.


It has been a closely held belief of mine that we waste our time wondering about more intelligent life in the far reaches of space than right here on earth.


The recent UAPs with seemingly extremely advanced technology could just as easily be coming from within our own oceans as from outer space.


Treating animals as anything more than "pets" or "food" here on Earth would inevitably raise questions about animal rights, ethics of our handling of planet's resources, etc.

We would rather eat live octopuses and pretend that finding life on other planets is more important than saving life on this one.


Some places are beginning to phase out cephalopods as food. We'll see how long it takes Japan to do so... They're still hunting whales.


I just visited Osaka. From what I saw I doubt anytime soon.


Obviously we should be doing both. How else are we ever going to taste the aliens?


> Treating animals as anything more than "pets"

To be fair, the eugenics experiment that is the "dog" significantly increased the species intelligence.


Are you claiming that domestic dogs are more intelligent than gray wolves?


Yes , especially specific breeds like golden retrievers.


I think you're confusing trainability with intelligence. Golden Retrievers make great pets and hunting companions, but they're pretty dumb.


I could be judging intelligence by too few dimensions.


Should this be covered so publicly by media outlets with no protections in place for the animals? At least don’t give out the approximate location that easily. I’m pretty sure someone going to show up to the spot with a net.


The part of them being "almost two miles below the surface" might be one of the reasons they mention it so brazenly, totally in agreement with you, but someone at two miles depth with a net is probably unlikely here.


It's 2 miles below the surface. They'll be perfectly fine.


> It's 2 miles below the surface. They'll be perfectly fine.

That's what they said to Ocean Gate customers, too. /s


> I’m pretty sure someone going to show up to the spot with a net.

I hope that. Will love to see their faces with the mouth full of ammonia


> the largest congregation of deep-sea octopuses ever discovered on Earth, where over 6,000 octopuses huddle around an extinct underwater volcano in the black, cold ocean depths, almost two miles below the surface.

I'm 99% sure the number 6000 is an estimation, and in that case, how would you start to estimate such number? Divide the area into a grid of N cells, count all of them in one cell and then apply to the entire area? Seems they would be many clusters so the number would be very unreliable.


The current top comment links to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEXUOPkQPo8

The 6000 is what they counted in one area.

They estimate 20000 total.

Skip to 1:50 for the part they talk about the counts.


Exactly what I was looking for, thanks :)


Sampling is a standard technique that produces good results


is this a FAANG interview?


The fact that you're asking this question is a sign this isn't a good fit. We'll call you.

/s


Let me take this opportunity to recommend this recipe from my country - https://www.thespruceeats.com/galician-style-octopus-recipe-...


IMO, octopus are too smart to be eaten ethically.


I'm leaning in agreement with you. Squid also reproduce a lot faster than octopus (market squid lifespan is 9 months and they die after reproduction) so I recommend folks save their cephalopod recipes for squid.


Some octopuses only live for 6 months.


Can people with mental disabilities be eaten ethically?

Follow up question since I can guess your answer: what about mentally disabled chimpanzees? What about mentally disabled octopuswhiches[0]? I'm talking to the point where they would not survive outside of human intervention. Or maybe not. Where is the line?

[0] as defined as the plural of octopus elsewhere in the comments


There are many lines. Some lines are drawn by the law, other lines are drawn by the society we live in and/or our individual ethical norms.

If we have collectively decided that intelligence is a factor when deciding whether an animal can be eaten by humans, then it's a perfectly logical conclusion for many people that eating octopuses is disgraceful.


> If we have collectively decided that intelligence is a factor when deciding whether an animal can be eaten

Tip: "We" haven't decided that.

Second tip: All this chatter is sterile, I bet that this species isn't edible at all


These are of course some of the hardest questions we have to answer for ourselves and they don't have clear cut answers. I don't know where exactly the line should be, but IMO octopi are over that line. That's a large part of the reason why I don't east any meat at home. Even worse, I also am very open to arguments for panpsychism which is a almost paralyzing thought.


Like eating your border collie.


Mushrooms could be the most intelligent organism on earth.


I love Suzanne Simard but I strongly believe she has mistaken osmotic pressure for intention in some of her work.


fungus in general

like how the ground fungus communicates through earth, the invisible flying fungus might have a wifi-type system.. 'we found bread!'


Absolutely reprehensible.


Yes, how dare a culture eat an animal, making delicious cuisine. What villainy. Who would ever think to stoop to cooking and eating something that lives in the ocean?!


I take it you wouldn't have an issue with eating other people if they lived in the ocean?


It has nothing to do with the fact that they live in the ocean. We are omnivores, not herbivores. If there were no other animals around to eat, then yes, I’m certain various populations of people would resort to cannibalism and have in the past.

They are not “savages,” just different.

We’ve eaten meat, of land, sea, and air, for far longer than anyone has tried to convince anyone else they should be vegan. That’s all I’m saying.


We've also as a collective re-evaluated our values over time, reducing our overall cruelty and savagery as we realized its extent. There's nothing wrong with that either, and your original comment did not adequately recognize that this is where the sentiment comes from.


Please check yourself here; who is “we”? Clearly the Portuguese and Spanish still love their pulpo, so we as a “collective” of humans have apparently not collectively re-evaluated our values over time, deciding that eating meat is cruel and savage.

You have, and that’s completely okay.

But to unilaterally call a culture’s cuisine “absolutely reprehensible,” is, in my opinion, the actually reprehensible act.

In particular, calling someone’s cuisine (or really almost anything else) “absolutely reprehensible” is a great, surefire way to not convince anyone your point has merit.

To be ultra clear: I have no issues with vegetarians, vegans, or anyone else. My issue is with people who have issue with those who have different beliefs or ways of life, labeling those people as “absolutely reprehensible.”

That, in essence, is my issue with the original comment.


> Please check yourself here; who is “we”?

I do mean we as in humankind.

> Clearly the Portuguese and Spanish still love their pulpo, so we as a “collective” of humans have apparently not collectively re-evaluated our values over time, deciding that eating meat is cruel and savage.

I'm saying we evolve our collective moral views in general. For example, slavery even just 300 years ago was way more prevalent than today, and more people find it morally reprehensible. It still exists today, but it's a clear example of an area we've collectively re-evaluated our values over time. The acceptance of homosexuality and interracial relationships are even more recent. Do you disagree that we've evolved as a collective on those issues?

Sure, today it's not a majority view that eating octopus is "absolutely reprehensible" but imo that's a valid point of view and there's no telling whether that will become the majority opinion. If Christians get to walk around saying "we believe everyone else goes to hell" then I'm not going to complain about someone from expressing their opinion that octopus consumption is barbaric. You can say both groups are equally intolerant (Christians and octopus-lovers) but I'd encourage you to consider how they're different too, because they are.

I think the key point in your reaction is interpreting this sentiment as cultural slander. Reminder that cultural practices don't automatically become things we all have to respect. Like, do you have any reservations about cultural repression of women (e.g. certain Islamic countries as an extreme example)? I sure do, and I think that's okay. Would you have considered anti-slavery folks intolerant 300 years ago just because their viewpoint cut against the (global!) cultural grain?


If your culture is just eating octopus then that's embarrassing. Eating them is reprehensible, no matter if you think it's culture or not.

Eating octopus isn't a culture just as trading crypto currency isn't a personality.


> reducing our overall cruelty and savagery

Can you give some examples ? Because when i think at Guantanamo and various wars, i don't see any reduction.


Yes, you're quite right, how dare they eat such intelligent lifeforms.


I agree.


Since we're recommending recipes, here's one from my country - https://www.authenticfoodquest.com/polvo-a-lagareiro-recipe-...

Cheers neighbour!




Consider applying for YC's Summer 2026 batch! Applications are open till May 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: