Brene Brown studied it. It does not turn out well for men:
> I was not prepared to hear over and over from men how the women — the mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives — in their lives are constantly criticizing them for not being open and vulnerable and intimate, all the while they are standing in front of that cramped wizard closet where their men are huddled inside, adjusting the curtain and making sure no one sees in and no one gets out. There was a moment when I was driving home from an interview with a small group of men and thought, Holy shit. I am the patriarchy. Here’s the painful pattern that emerged from my research with men: We ask them to be vulnerable, we beg them to let us in, and we plead with them to tell us when they’re afraid, but the truth is that most women can’t stomach it. In those moments when real vulnerability happens in men, most of us recoil with fear and that fear manifests as everything from disappointment to disgust.
I posted this on HN before, and out of the woodworks came all the anecdotes of bad reactions to male vulnerability. I strongly advise other men to not discuss their feelings in depth with any woman they have romantic interest in, and possibly women in general since I've seen mothers similarly affected.
Yeah, this resonates. The times I have been vulnerable in relationships has always been met with, exactly as you say, recoil and disgust. It's a really shitty feeling to feel clingy and unworthy... in other words, when you actually need someone by your side.
As men, when we need people the most, that is when they are nowhere to be found. A stark contrast with women, who naturally seem to support each other in such times, and aren't hung up on the social stigma that encumber men.
I agree with much of this, but not the takeaway. After my divorce, I decided that I’d rather be single than have to spend any more timing hiding myself. So I’m pretty open and vulnerable with women. If they can’t handle it, I’m not gonna spend my life hiding real shit, that’s insane. And the woman I’ve been seeing for almost two years doesn’t seem phased by it, so they’re out there.
Yes, I had previously mentioned the idea that, if you want a woman to break up with you, you be vulnerable in front of her over something small but reasonable. A moment of weakness.
The disdain and even revulsion makes them think it was their idea. Revulsion is the correct term for it; now trending is women endlessly discussing what gives them "the ick" when it comes to a prospective mate. A tear at anything other than your mother's funeral? You'll get dumped soon.
It's like a dreadful little magic spell and one of the components you use up at each casting is your faith in what society at large tells you.
Great as a concept - terrible when it comes to the crushing reality that is the dating market as it is.
Average looking men are already dealing with an incredibly challenging dating market. Now you add on that they have higher expectations for their partners behavior - you're going to be completely alone for the rest of your life.
I hate to say it but the reality is - you're better off trying to mold/brainwash/train your partner to become more accepting of men's feelings than looking for some unicorn that already accepts them.
are you sure it's a unicorn? i didn't get that impression. i can't remember having a girlfriend that wasn't open to my feelings. of course everyone's sample size is very small, and being your average introvert meant that there weren't so many opportunities to meet someone, and there also may be the idea that women who are not open to a mans feelings would not even be interested in someone like me in the first place. that is to say, a woman who cares about a mans feeling is looking at other qualities, that potentially raise the chances for an average looking man.
so maybe there was some self selection going on rather than intent from my side. but that also counters the idea that it's a unicorn. but there is also a cultural dimension, as i was traveling the world, most people i met did not come from western countries. so maybe they are a unicorn in the western cultures.
You've just whittled down your already small dating pool to something even smaller, or you've alienated your girlfriend (or wife) of 3 years. Was it worth it?
Emotional vulnerability and openness is predicated on trust. If you can't trust your partner to be there when you express yourself, then you have a serious problem. Trust is the cornerstone of any relationship.
If anything I feel like becoming more emotionally mature opened up my dating pool, and made me a better partner. Ultimately you are better off being with someone who you can talk about your emotions with.
I've been in relationships where I couldn't talk about my problems, and being unable to talk about them didn't make those problems disappear.
Yes, very much worth it. As someone who divorced after two decades, living your life behind a mask isn’t worth it for any romantic relationship. Which will lack true intimacy, since you will not be known for who you are. You will never feel chosen just for being you, because she won’t know who that is.
I get open and vulnerable and emotional with my partner, and I have since the beginning. Hasn’t hurt things yet. Maybe that’s still coming, but again, I’d rather be single.
> I was not prepared to hear over and over from men how the women — the mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives — in their lives are constantly criticizing them for not being open and vulnerable and intimate, all the while they are standing in front of that cramped wizard closet where their men are huddled inside, adjusting the curtain and making sure no one sees in and no one gets out. There was a moment when I was driving home from an interview with a small group of men and thought, Holy shit. I am the patriarchy. Here’s the painful pattern that emerged from my research with men: We ask them to be vulnerable, we beg them to let us in, and we plead with them to tell us when they’re afraid, but the truth is that most women can’t stomach it. In those moments when real vulnerability happens in men, most of us recoil with fear and that fear manifests as everything from disappointment to disgust.
I posted this on HN before, and out of the woodworks came all the anecdotes of bad reactions to male vulnerability. I strongly advise other men to not discuss their feelings in depth with any woman they have romantic interest in, and possibly women in general since I've seen mothers similarly affected.