>would end it in bursts of Mad Max like rebellions...

Have you not lived through a natural disaster such as a hurricane or earthquake? The power grid (and thus Internet) are down for days, sometimes weeks. The running water stops, and refrigerated food spoils.

Do you know what happens? It is not Mad Max style chaos. Businesses open their doors to help everyone free of charge. Neighbors share water. People help each other.

No, I have not lived through a natural disaster where a set of very localized resources are temporarily unavailable (for a few days).

If there was a general failure of Internet on the level of a country for an extended (weeks) amount of time then it would be chaos. a lot of information would not go though, you would not be able to pay in stores, hospital data could be unavailable, travel would be highly disrupted etc.

If Internet breaks locally, what comes from outside this "locally" still works. If this si for a limited time people will manage.

As someone said, we are a few meals away from the collapse of our civilization.

Since you mention the power grid: the generally accepted idea of the Earth hitting a solar flare and having its power grid seriously damaged (and electronics) is that it would be doomsday.

> If there was a general failure of Internet on the level of a country for an extended (weeks) amount of time then it would be chaos.

I'm curious if you are very young?

Life doesn't depend on the internet.

Take hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico in 2017. Wiped out electricity, phones and water for many many weeks for the lucky and for multiple months for many people. The unluckiest areas were without power for a year or more.

Life goes on. To great inconvenience, but things keep going.

The worst is being without water. As long as there is water, being without electricity or internet for weeks is no big deal. (Except of course for people who depend on life support equipment.)

I am in my 50's, so hardly "very young" :)

During these times you mention, were hospitals closed? Shops closed without anything coming in? No banks working? No fuel? Nothing being brought to the people?

If so I would seriously be glad to understand how they survived (I am very serious).

Otherwise it was a localized shutdown, with the rest of the country coming in to help and bring in what was not available locally. Life does depend on Internet and power on a more global scale.

> I am in my 50's, so hardly "very young" :)

Interesting! So you remember a normal life without internet.

> During these times you mention, were hospitals closed? Shops closed without anything coming in? No banks working? No fuel? Nothing being brought to the people?

Plenty has been written (search Puerto Rico Maria 2017) if you're curious.

Everything tries to continue operating the best they can. Some places have generators so they can open some hours but fuel is difficult to get (wait in line all day for a few gallons). For many things electricity isn't that vital. Water is critical. Supplies trickle in but slowly, so most places run out of everything. Share with neighbors and figure it out.

It's all very difficult, but society doesn't collapse. This went on for months (or a year+ in more remote areas).

> with the rest of the country coming in

Puerto Rico is an island so there is no rest of the country to come in from.

Things arrive by ship which take a good while and there were also a lot of problems with cargo being blocked at the ports, so even with donations arriving they were held up. That's a whole another can of worms.

> During these times you mention, were hospitals closed? Shops closed without anything coming in? No banks working? No fuel? Nothing being brought to the people?

Can’t speak for PR in 2017, but generally… satellite internet. Walmart set up satellites in the 80 for their financial networks. Most large banks by now would either have access to them or be able to have access. Everything important already has failover.

If it’s big enough, the government/military gets involved. The European governments surely could set up a Satellite link for a little while. European nations are small, they could probably string together microwave relays.

My biggest internet concern in extended European power outages are the data centers. AWS et al in the EU will lose power, and anything important hosted there will migrate to US or other regions… and I doubt they have excess capacity for that during the holiday seasons (when Amazon and Google have higher usage of their own too)

>During these times you mention,

> were hospitals closed?

Some, not all. Depends on size and priority. They get brought up depending on priorities. In Puerto Rico, Trauma 1, Centro Medico, has to up first for example.

> Shops closed without anything coming in?

Some yes (most smaller ones). Others, no. Problem is that in Puerto Rico the denser area, the metro area, is just on small area of the island. There, bigger stores were opened. In other towns, there you don't have bigger stores. You just have small mom and pop shops that cater to the people in that 'barrio'.

> No banks working?

Banking in PR, the main bank owns the ATH network (an atm network), that has to go up. Pretty sure it's at the same priority of Trauma 1 hospitals so that people aren't stuck. But you actually get a lot of people going to the banks and getting out as much as they can.

> No fuel?

It took *A LOT* of time to get fuel and gas to individuals. Reserves go first to priority one.

> Nothing being brought to the people?

Mostly by random people. As you heard of people in towns that are complaining of not receiving things, you have other regular people going up. The government was a disaster. Both local and federal, including army and fema.

There are local areas with cattle, and that grow vegetables and things. So basically, just going old school. Town squares and contacts. Money while useful for bigger stores, it's not what people needed. So, if you can find fuel and had extra.

It always goes back to basics. Helping each other out. People just get together. If a street is blocked, neighbors get together to open it up. Machetes, saws, etc. Cookouts, 'what do you have?, I have a bbq and rice, bring over vegetables and we'll make something'. 'Got a chicken, we are making asopao and feeding EVERYONE'

----- > If so I would seriously be glad to understand how they survived (I am very serious).

It was tough. Radio operators were brought in to the island to help coordinate things because there was no infrastructure. No cellphones, no radios, no antennas for cellphones (damaged and no power), am radios to hear info.

They would just sit down in front of the house, by a tree and all they neighbors would just talk. Clean the house. Clean around debris.

Think back to childhood times, but now it's everyone.

------

I was able to get my sister, my mom, my grandparents over to my place 6 weeks after the hurricane hit. They stayed with me for 5 weeks before they went back. They went back without having power, but water had just arrived.

My mom was caring for my grandparents. My sister was the one finding things. There were 6 hour lines to be able to get into a store to buy whatever food they had. They were buying whatever they could find, even things that were spoiled. The next day, she would do 4-6 hour lines to get gasoline for the car.

They were cooking over small fires in the yard.

My family lives in a well off city, Guaynabo. Meaning that there's a lot of influential people and I can guarantee you they were trying to pull strings and bribing people to get connected quickly.

I know it, because in the past when I lived on the island, I worked with very influential people and saw their dealings and how they moved things and how favors got exchanged for things, even for a public utility (like they had then, but since it's been privatized).

For reference, 5 years after, a category 1 hurricane just devastated the island. It's been 11 days. While the most of clients have power (denser metro area), the majority of the island (total area), are still out.

> It would be truly wonderful

Well here in Iran we are going through that as we speak (there are ongoing protests and government has shut down the internet, it is only available early in the morning). Wanna trade places?

I am not sure about your comment. I never told I would be happy to be in an oppressed place. I would be glad to not have Internet (or have an unreliable one, available only sometime) because I miss the time where there was less information available.

That's all.

My son is in close contact with a girl in Iran and I know how tough this is - but this completely beside the point I wanted to make.

Sorry, maybe I reacted inappropriately. But I think we don't realize what a privilege reliable access to internet is, until it is taken away.

I get what you are saying, especially in a case where Internet is the only reliable way to get information in or out of your country.

I work in IT, spend my free time coding personal stuff and what is left - it is used to read on Internet various sources of information. This is the reason I would be glad if this was a bit limited, so that people need to go to libraries to read something, and not be overwhelmed by information.

When I go trekking in places where there is no access to Internet I get a satellite phone for the sake of security. I like these times where I simply cannot connect anywhere and have to fill my head with other things (thoughts, reading, discussing, ...)

You have energy. Its not obvious BrandoElFillito will. Come April, he might want to swap. Western leaders are already kissing ME tyrants' butts. One cold winter, and Habeck will look to cuddle with your Mullahs for warmth.

Honestly, HN is not a good place for such comments.

This paradoxical sentiment is something I'm familiar with. The establishment sucks and is broken and is holding humanity back, but the alternative is terrifying. I've always thought I would have been better off in a pre-digital age (or post-digital?), but at the same time, I love the digits. And you're right, there would be blood.