> It is intrinsic to the rights of women to do what they want to do with their own body

I think there is a deep clash of worldviews here. Some people view individual autonomy, and especially bodily autonomy, as among the most cherished and sacred of values – an absolute which should never be compromised. Other people, while they don't view individual autonomy as worthless, they don't put it as high in their hierarchy of values, so they are open to the idea that sometimes it has to give way to other values, and can rightfully be limited if necessary to protect something else of great importance. There are both women and men on both sides of this worldview divide. And there is something to be said for trying to understand the viewpoint of people with very different values from your own – a message both sides of that divide would do well to heed.

No. Fuck that. There is not 'two viewpoints'. There is:

* Oppress women * Don't oppress women

This is the paradox of tolerance. You cannot negotiate with a monster who wants to force their views on people, especially those around forced birthing, you know, against the Helsinki Agreement on Human Right among others. There is no benevolent religion or philosophy that requires forcing a person to do something with their body.

I don't have pro or anti views. I just have a single view that you can do whatever you fucking like with your own body, and nobody can tell you that you can or cant. Anything else is fucking monstrous and will not be tolerated.

According to Pew Research figures from March this year, [0] only 21% of American women believe that abortion should be legal in all cases, no exceptions – by contrast, 77% of American women support some degree of abortion restrictions, although the most widespread position (42%) is support for limited restrictions such that abortion would still be legal in the majority of cases; only 9% of American women support an absolute ban on abortion (compared to 8% of American men).

So, is your position that 77% of American women – including the 42% who support limited abortion restrictions – "hate themselves, or at least hate their sex"? Maybe, rather than they hating themselves, it is you who hate them?

[0] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abo...

Fighting against other people seeking medical procedures is a hateful position. Yes, if you are opposed to another person doing something with their body, you are filled with hate.

Basically you are asking for a tyranny of a majority. It just doesn't matter what you, 1% or 40% or 99% of people believe -- they are free to believe and do whatever they want with their own bodies. They cannot dictate beliefs and behaviors for others. Its just a simple thing. Autonomy.

I think religion has poisoned many minds. Any belief structure that requires forcing a viewpoint onto others is unacceptable.

I do believe all access all the time to whomever wants it, yes. There only one view that matters: A women has the right to decide what happens to her body. Anything else has no place on this planet.

Go oppress someone else.

You hate the vast majority of women-77% of American women, likely similar percentages in many other countries-if someone hates the vast majority of women, how is that not a form of misogyny?

I don't hate anyone. I think they are self-defeating and delusional, but I don't hate. Hate is wanting everyone else in the world to believe your delusions, and using the full force of the State to ensure compliance.

There is only one hateful position -- that you have the right to force your beliefs on others bodies. I do not share this position.

You smear the vast majority of women as "self-haters", and want to deny them the autonomy to choose moral and political views which are different from those which you personally approve. If anyone is a "hater" here, I think it is you, not them.

You do not understand my position at all. I am denying nothing to anyone. Everyone has the autonomy to choose their own moral and political views, including those which I do not personally approve.

What is not granted is the ability to force another to take on those views. I am not forcing you have have a particular belief structure, but you are making an argument that because a group of people have some pretty crazy ideas we all must be beholden to it. When you want to force an ideology -- and my position is not an ideology, it is an anti-ideology at best.

I posit that forcing women to give birth to babies against their consent is a grave human rights violation and cannot be tolerated in a modern civilized society. It is the same logic of the paradox of tolerance that we cannot permit those to push a their hateful agenda against others, for they will push their ignorance and hate so loud that rights vanish quickly.

> but you are making an argument that because a group of people have some pretty crazy ideas we all must be beholden to it. When you want to force an ideology

77% of American women support some degree of abortion restrictions – although a majority of them only support limited restrictions. What do you mean to say that all those women have "pretty crazy ideas"? How are they "forcing" an ideology on anyone by acting politically in accordance with their own beliefs–any more than anyone else doing the same thing is doing?