Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
Dead for a Century, Twain Says What He Meant (nytimes.com)
91 points by donohoe on July 11, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 34 comments


What do you folks think of Twain? I have limited exposure to his writings. I recently read Last of the Mohicans and really enjoyed it. While searching for more information on Cooper and Last of the Mohicans, I kept running into criticism of him by Twain. Twain said his grammar sucked and that he attributed romantic and ethical qualities to Native Americans which they simply didn't have, because they were entirely blood-thirsty savages.

Twain seemed like quite the jackass for those remarks, especially since I found Last of the Mohicans to be very readable and his portrayal of the Mohicans to be very interesting as contrasted to the European characters in the book. One such passage remarks that the Chief and his son, after considering new information, turned their whole plan on a dime, exhibiting the type of inconsistent behavior that would sink the career of a western politician.


> because they were entirely blood-thirsty savages.

>[I found] his portrayal of the Mohicans to be very interesting as contrasted to the European characters in the book.

I don't see why this makes him a jackass. You can enjoy a story without it being accurate. I haven't met any Mohicans, but I am generally skeptical of "noble savage" stereotypes.


"You can enjoy a story without it being accurate."

Tell that to Twain. He rails on Cooper.


I don't think Twain cared about whether someone somewhere could enjoy the story. Twain is commenting on the quality of the story, not certain individuals' personal enjoyment. Similarly, lots of people like Twilight — probably many times more than Last of the Mohicans — but it is not generally regarded as world-class literature.


I read some of Twain's criticisms on Cooper, and I think they are brilliant and are mostly not concerned with Indians but with the fact that Cooper was simply a terrible writer.

I actually read some Cooper as a kid and loved it, (but the stuff I read was translated and obviously re-written for kids), but now that I read the original English I must agree with Twain that Cooper is just not very good.

I have not seen his criticism about the portrayer of the Mohicans, but one should keep in mind that the "noble savage" stereotype is still a stereotype and is not to be preferred to more realistic portrayal.


His comedy remains hilarious. Most of my exposure is through The Complete Short Stories of Mark Twain. It's highly readable, and in what I find to be a pretty rare thing in old writing, the characters all feel like they were created yesterday, not ages ago.


The Complete Short Stories of Mark Twain is available in its entirety on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=ElrBj9ZcW50C&printsec=f...

Also free on Amazon in e-book form for Kindle/iOS devices: http://www.amazon.com/A-Dogs-Tale-ebook/dp/B000JQU9WO/


I don't know, in http://etext.virginia.edu/railton/projects/rissetto/offense.... , the essay that gets mentioned most frequently, Twain is bitching more about Cooper's word sense, broken story telling and the Mary Sue quality of Bumpo more so than grammar and Noble Savage stereotypes.


here's george orwell on mark twain (the good and the bad):

http://www.george-orwell.org/Mark_Twain_--_The_Licensed_Jest...


'In writing these books Mark Twain is not consciously writing a hymn to liberty. Primarily he is interested in 'character', in the fantastic, almost lunatic variations which human nature is capable of when economic pressure and tradition are both removed from it.'

thanks - very nice essay


I've heard him described as the first American author, and that seems about right. His writing did not just continue on the literary tradition as developed in England, but provided a style a voice representative of a different culture.


The article indicates that parts of it have been published before, but that the previous editors gutted it.

This edition has six editors working on it. But the article doesn't indicate what if any changes they're making.

Why can't they just publish the original manuscript?


Since it's clearly public domain, why not just release the whole thing online?


One factor is that then they wouldn't be able to sell as many copies of their exclusive edited edition. Which carries their copyright, due to the abomination that is the copyright system.


What makes you so sure that it's public domain? Of course the published forms that Mark Twain and his friends published should be public domain, but these seem to have been released in installments and other incomplete snippets. The full, raw manuscript, which seems to be what's requested, would naturally contain portions which were never published. Given that such a collection in its entirety would be a pseudonymous, unpublished work, the entire manuscript won't be in the public domain until 2031.

http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_0... http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_0...


Since the copyright clause clearly states that copyright is allowed so that living authors are encouraged to create more work, it makes perfect sense that Twain's work from the 1900s will remain in copyright until 2031. This Twain guy is going to do a lot more writing before then.


Oh, my friend. If only it were that easy. A few years ago a short proto-science-fiction story by Twain was re-discovered and published... with a 2006 copyright. Photographers that make reproductions of famous old paintings can attach their own copyright. Etc.


Right, but the text itself (as Twain wrote it) is not copyrighted, only the text as set out in the published version. Which means that scanning the book and distributing a pdf of it would violate copyright, but anybody can edit and publish their own version.


Yes, but that's assuming that they publish the text as Twain wrote it. If they editorialize it enough they'll have produced an original work on top of Twain's work.

That'll carry their copyright, and since they keep the original under wraps there won't be a public domain version of it until the copyright of the edition now being published expires, or someone leaks the original.


The truly amazing thing is that his words are still relevant today. Isn't it funny how everything is like a spiral? Even though things do move forward the circular motion is a near constant of life.

People keep on talking about the good old days, while deep inside they are afraid that there might not have been any good old days. Perhaps the emotions and struggles that are part and parcel of our existence are identical to those of people long gone. Stripped of all details it looks like to me that we just keep on repeating the same thing over and over again.

That observation aside the more fascinating question is why? Why do we let history repeat itself in torturous detail? Why do we forget the lessons of our past?


I don't think its a cycle or a spiral so much as a constant. People have always been greedy, wars have always been unnecessarily waged, companies have always abused their power. The only thing that changes are the names of those responsible for it.

As for older generations yelling about newer generations, I suspect that's simply "wisdom of age" coupled with "fear of change".


I am getting a sign-up page. It is freely available somewhere else?


Clear your NYTimes cookies.



I like the fact that Twain was opinionated and sharply critical.

I also like the fact that he thought it best to wait for a hundred years to unload all of this. We can read this now and put it in context, whereas at the time it was only so many of his reactions. He had the sense to realize that not everything you can think is something you should say publicly -- at least while the folks you are talking about are still alive. He even included himself in the list of professional idiots: It is the will of God that we must have critics, and missionaries, and Congressmen, and humorists, and we must bear the burden.

Not just a humorist, but a pretty smart guy. I'm looking forward to the next books in the series!


And not just clever, witty, and progressive, but an honorable man, repaying very large debts even when not legally required:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Twain#Financial_troubles


> It is the will of God that we must have critics, and missionaries, and Congressmen, and humorists, and we must bear the burden.

I found that quote particularly ironic, considering it seems so much of his autobiography is him being critical of pretty much everything.

EDIT: Of course, being Twain, the irony may have been intentional.



Thanks. This is going to be epic. The Texas school board will have to edit him out of our history and English curriculum.



Twain's "Roughing It" is hilarious. His writing style was absolutely unlike any other 19th century writing I'd read.

It makes for great road trip or beach reading; or just download it and read a few chapters: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3177


From the same archive, here's a previously-unpublished Twain essay about being interviewed.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/documents/mark-twain-con...


Pre-ordering mine now.





Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: