We all knew this wouldn't work (at least anyone who grew up during and after the 80s). These "rules", in the best-case scenario, are just useless bureaucracy or bloat in the name of good intentions. In the worst case, they have nothing to do with protecting kids and are just paving the way for what comes next.

To be sincere, they were never truly ours. A proof of that is they were able to come up with this, and you don't have a way to reject it.

What we actually need are (open) alternatives, not to double down on Google's ecosystem and Google-controlled OS. We need to control the device we bought and be able to run whatever we wish on it. Just like we do on PCs.

https://postmarketos.org is working on developing a Linux distribution for mobile devices (including smartphones), aligned with these goals: free open source software, empowering users to control their own devices.

I won't deny that a lot of application support still needs more work. But this is definitely moving in the right direction.

Is it time to bring back the Windows phone?

I keed I keed!

But unfortunately there really isn't a great alternative. I painfully attempted to use Ubuntu Touch and its always the same thing. The lack of available apps, the lack of app development in general for the platform was pretty eye opening. Add in having it only run on really old devices isn't much help either. Its promising, but a long ways off even from some of the non-standard roms I've used like Evolution X which is a Lineage fork.

If this really does cripple a lot of the known custom roms out there without any solid alternatives other than Graphene? It could really be a huge turning point.

I wouldn’t mind a 64-bit build of Symbian or WebOS on my phone, actually. Or, hell, Plan 9.

We need a Wine-like compatibility layer for android alternatives

doesn't waydroid already do this? is that how sailfish does it?

Yes, I have been able to run Android applications within Waydroid on my phone for years now (as long as they don't require attestation). But that's not how Sailfish does it, they have their own proprietary implementation.

I really don't understand this mentality at all. Freedom is about the ability to do more stuff, not the requirement to do more stuff. Meaning, everything you want to do with a locked down phone, you can do with an open one.

There's no, like, gun to your head saying you HAVE to side load apps. You can just... not... do that. If you think side loading is insecure. You can download 100% of your apps from the play store. In fact, that's what 95% of people do.

I mean, what's the threat model here? That you somehow forget your own belief about side loading being insecure and then accidently side load an app? Does that even seem possible?

I can kind of understand this argument for granny who doesn't know where she is. Kind of. But for you, it makes no sense. I mean really, think about what you're saying here about you as a computer user or even as a person.

Hey, I’ve side loaded and F-Droided and all that. But here’s the thing: I just need the phone to work, minimally spy on me, and not turn into some horrible malware sinkhole. Google and their OEM ecosystem lost my confidence on all three counts.

One thing I used to side load or F-Droid was a keyboard, to circumvent what I perceived as privacy violations. But my selection Year 0 got forked or disappeared by Year 2, idk when or why, and thats a glaring security or privacy risk that I don’t have time to monitor and figure.

I actually thought Google’s solution in the article was charming— toggle developer mode. If you’re in developer mode you know you’ve got something to monitor and mitigate. Smartphones just aren’t powerful enough to use for their own defense at a consumer level against professionalized hackers, and from a product positioning perspective Google’s move is completely defensible.

Well people can be tricked into sideloading apps if it’s possible.

To be clear I’m totally on your side and I think that’s a ridiculous reason to not have an open system, but let’s not pretend it’s not a possibility because doing so harms our otherwise very solid argument

It is definitely a possibility, for granny like I pointed out. Not for this person, who is aware of the risk and does not want to side load apps.

Like I said, they would have to somehow forget their own beliefs. Doesn't seem likely to me.

If you look at the workflows for these changes, you'll notice that some of them are actually there to prevent you from doing stuff under duress.

Like it or not, if one wants security some freedom will need to be moved elsewhere.

And since the market is heading that way, the only thing we can do is form an android sandbox SIG and maintain a fork for enthusiasts.

Let's not be naive by pretending improving user security is the main purpose of that move.

May or may not be. It does significantly improve security.

I miss data to confirm any of this does significantly improve security.

Anecdata: I have yet to meet someone who have been targeted by unknowingly side-loading apps.

If they really want to improve security they can work on much more impactful changes. I know people having been scammed by ads proudly delivered by instagram and google. I read about malicious apps that somehow went through official store filtering.

They're doing good work on those fronts as well, but in war you don't win all the battles.

It's also especially difficult to tighten security in the direction your money is coming from.

Android has no such constraints

Great for you. But what about the rest of us?

Makes sense. I never worked with this particular provider, but I must say that for many (many) use cases, Europe has very capable providers, and the big US players are not necessarily the best choices.

I would still get a Framework rather than a MacBook. A couple of hundred dollars for the openness, repairability, and upgradability is a great deal.

The movement of the "bat" is tied to the physical limitations of the arm and the positioning of the body. Something that can't be deduced or even perceived clearly from the movements of this robot.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, it would be important to know how many weeks of preparation and training against this sort of robot the player had before the match.

Exactly. There are cues that an opponent provides when approaching a ball that help the player prepare for and limit the range of possible responses (this happens with most racket games). With these robots, the players only find out after the ball is already coming in their direction.

I wonder how much practice these players had against the machine in the weeks leading up to the actual game. That would be significant to ensure they are playing at their pro level.

Nice. I wonder how hard it would be to take the open-source code of the project and adapt it to other countries.

As I mentioned previously, the writing is on the wall. It is a matter of time.

We definitely need a true alternative on the market, preferably open, to balance things out and to free everyone from the duopoly. The political pressure that is needed is not to “keep” Android open, but to ensure that governments and institutions don't double down on the existing duopoly. Ensure that interoperability standards are in place, and don't lock people into the existing big tech platforms/solutions.

> If there's a healthy future for socializing on the internet, I think it will happen in small communities.

Bingo. Not a big (or even a small) user of social media. But small, focused communities are where I see it bring the most value for the user.

They are also where I've seen the most interesting initiatives since the 90s. The rest is just influential "people" broadcasting their content.

Content and opinions that change like the weather, just for clicks and engagement. It’s a long way from integrity and responsibility from these influencers.